Thanks for the relentless pursuit on this topic, Zoe and Casey. I wouldn't say it resolves it - especially as the comment issue goes in a circle that doesn't get escalated. To me, it seems as though their hands got caught in the cookie jar so they're belatedly making more of an effort. I sense this will get worse because the founders don't seem as though they want to be dealing with this side of the business they have started.
I have to be honest here, it feels like Substack is just reacting to the heat of the moment and will continue ignoring any new Nazi newsletters that pop up after the fact. I'm not sure if I personally want to continue providing revenue for a company that feels so insincere in their response.
The least difficult thing to do, you'd think, is say "we don't condone Nazi ideology, and will proactively ensure no one expressing such will be paid on this platform hence forth"
I appreciate your work, thank you for pushing Substack to *check notes* enforces its own terms of service. Which is the bare minimum one can expect from such a platform. They deserve no award here.
That being said, the statement Substack offered is empty. They "heard your feedback", but changed basically nothing. As you wrote on the story, they will not "proactively removing content related to neo-Nazis and far-right extremism". Fundamentally, they are still fine hosting, and monetizing, Nazi content as long as nobody reports it. Which changes literally nothing when it comes to the criticism they received. The "Nazis, welcome" sign is still up and running.
As it stands, I will not renew my subscription to Platformer, and I will continue unsubscribing to newsletters hosted here. I take no pleasure doing so. As a writer myself, I'm well aware how negatively it will impact writers. But in good conscience, I cannot accept to help fund a company that is fine working with literal Nazis.
I will happily resubscribe to Platformer elsewhere — whether it's Ghost, WordPress, Memberful, literally anywhere else.
I hope Substack reconsider, but I don't think they will.
I don't think Substack did a terrible job. The definition of "Nazi" or "far right" can be very slippery. Limit it to stuff nearly everyone can agree on. Otherwise it becomes whatever you get a social media mob to get behind.
The problem in the US today is far less expansive free speech than weak political parties that let a small number of nutty primary voters have any significant influence at all. Extreme political ideas won't generally get broad traction, but they can end up on the ballot if we let hyperpartisan weirdos select our candidates.
I found other Substacks I follow via your direct links. So if you move to another platform, I'll follow you there and hopefully you can refer more great authors. Some of them have already made the move, or are in the painful stages of migration. As one wrote, it should be the Nazis who have to move.
I really want Substack to succeed. They've build a great set of tools and user experiences, and I sympathise with their stance on moderation. However, the last few years have shown that allowing misinformation to flourish doesn't contribute to the great marketplace of ideas, rather creates real world problems and entrenches these views in mainstream society.
We live in the great age of hate and willful ignorance, and Substack is fueling it.
Aren't there any other platforms that you can use? It is past time to move on. Why associate and give business to people who have to dragged into "understanding" that Nazism is profoundly dangerous, not something to promote or profit from. Nazism resulted in some of the worst events in human history. Come on!
I will keep supporting Platformer here, or wherever you end up. Kudos for getting Substack to move a bit from their original and, in my opinion, untenable position on extremist content.
Nice work—will be interesting to see how well whack-a-mole goes. Is there a means to pay Platformer direct for a continuing subscription, as regardless of this change I’m cancelling all my paid subs (and moving my newsletters off), and would prefer not to lose access to your paid posts—happy to switch to annual direct if that makes things easier. Thanks again & love the podcast.
I’ll be honest, I was waiting to hear what yall heard back from Substack but the response is so unacceptable. The bar is on the floor—remove Nazi content, period—and yet they still can’t clear it.
Today I’ll be canceling my recurring subs on Substack, though I’d happily resubscribe on another platform.
Selectively choosing when (if) to enforce policies is not effective. You pressured them into responding this time, but they’re not changing their policies. So, what happens next time?
I logged into Substack for the first time in weeks to respond to this. My Platformer annual subscription renewed in November and while I love what you all are doing, I won’t give $10 a year to a group that is ok with hate speech. I’d much rather give that extra $10 to you. So, if Platformer is still on SS later this year, I will not be renewing.
Yes, I understand the burden of switching (I did it over the summer at a much MUCH smaller scale). But I also know that true platform independence is a win for creators and, in this case, journalistic freedom.
This is great news! Thank you for leveraging the clout of your large audience and revenue to push Substack for greater transparency and clarity on their content policies. I also appreciate that you call out anti-vaxx and covid denialist/contrarianism; from my self-interested point of view, it is hard to grow a pro-science publication on a platform known for embracing quackery and pseudoscience! I agree that the Nazi issue is not the last time this tension will arise for the company founders, and they should be thinking deeply about a long-term strategy that resolves it better
Thanks for the relentless pursuit on this topic, Zoe and Casey. I wouldn't say it resolves it - especially as the comment issue goes in a circle that doesn't get escalated. To me, it seems as though their hands got caught in the cookie jar so they're belatedly making more of an effort. I sense this will get worse because the founders don't seem as though they want to be dealing with this side of the business they have started.
I have to be honest here, it feels like Substack is just reacting to the heat of the moment and will continue ignoring any new Nazi newsletters that pop up after the fact. I'm not sure if I personally want to continue providing revenue for a company that feels so insincere in their response.
I'm going to add that the acceptable number of Nazis should be zero.
I think this is a good first step, but allowing any form of Nazi content is still reprehensible. I would prefer if Platformer still left.
The least difficult thing to do, you'd think, is say "we don't condone Nazi ideology, and will proactively ensure no one expressing such will be paid on this platform hence forth"
But that seems to be too difficult.
Totally agree. Even further, I’m not sure why as America we can’t have a law against the use of Nazi symbols like in Australia and Germany.
I appreciate your work, thank you for pushing Substack to *check notes* enforces its own terms of service. Which is the bare minimum one can expect from such a platform. They deserve no award here.
That being said, the statement Substack offered is empty. They "heard your feedback", but changed basically nothing. As you wrote on the story, they will not "proactively removing content related to neo-Nazis and far-right extremism". Fundamentally, they are still fine hosting, and monetizing, Nazi content as long as nobody reports it. Which changes literally nothing when it comes to the criticism they received. The "Nazis, welcome" sign is still up and running.
As it stands, I will not renew my subscription to Platformer, and I will continue unsubscribing to newsletters hosted here. I take no pleasure doing so. As a writer myself, I'm well aware how negatively it will impact writers. But in good conscience, I cannot accept to help fund a company that is fine working with literal Nazis.
I will happily resubscribe to Platformer elsewhere — whether it's Ghost, WordPress, Memberful, literally anywhere else.
I hope Substack reconsider, but I don't think they will.
I don't think Substack did a terrible job. The definition of "Nazi" or "far right" can be very slippery. Limit it to stuff nearly everyone can agree on. Otherwise it becomes whatever you get a social media mob to get behind.
The problem in the US today is far less expansive free speech than weak political parties that let a small number of nutty primary voters have any significant influence at all. Extreme political ideas won't generally get broad traction, but they can end up on the ballot if we let hyperpartisan weirdos select our candidates.
So it's removing "some," implying not all? Some Nazis get to stay at the bar?
Too little, too late?
I found other Substacks I follow via your direct links. So if you move to another platform, I'll follow you there and hopefully you can refer more great authors. Some of them have already made the move, or are in the painful stages of migration. As one wrote, it should be the Nazis who have to move.
I really want Substack to succeed. They've build a great set of tools and user experiences, and I sympathise with their stance on moderation. However, the last few years have shown that allowing misinformation to flourish doesn't contribute to the great marketplace of ideas, rather creates real world problems and entrenches these views in mainstream society.
We live in the great age of hate and willful ignorance, and Substack is fueling it.
This is precisely it.
I’d happily subscribe to Platformer on another platform, for what it’s worth.
Aren't there any other platforms that you can use? It is past time to move on. Why associate and give business to people who have to dragged into "understanding" that Nazism is profoundly dangerous, not something to promote or profit from. Nazism resulted in some of the worst events in human history. Come on!
I will keep supporting Platformer here, or wherever you end up. Kudos for getting Substack to move a bit from their original and, in my opinion, untenable position on extremist content.
Nice work—will be interesting to see how well whack-a-mole goes. Is there a means to pay Platformer direct for a continuing subscription, as regardless of this change I’m cancelling all my paid subs (and moving my newsletters off), and would prefer not to lose access to your paid posts—happy to switch to annual direct if that makes things easier. Thanks again & love the podcast.
I'm really happy you're pursuing this, but it looks like they are only removing five authors? That doesn't line up with the data in the Atlantic article or, I presume, your own investigation. https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/8/24030756/substack-nazi-newsletter-content-moderation
I’ll be honest, I was waiting to hear what yall heard back from Substack but the response is so unacceptable. The bar is on the floor—remove Nazi content, period—and yet they still can’t clear it.
Today I’ll be canceling my recurring subs on Substack, though I’d happily resubscribe on another platform.
Selectively choosing when (if) to enforce policies is not effective. You pressured them into responding this time, but they’re not changing their policies. So, what happens next time?
I logged into Substack for the first time in weeks to respond to this. My Platformer annual subscription renewed in November and while I love what you all are doing, I won’t give $10 a year to a group that is ok with hate speech. I’d much rather give that extra $10 to you. So, if Platformer is still on SS later this year, I will not be renewing.
Yes, I understand the burden of switching (I did it over the summer at a much MUCH smaller scale). But I also know that true platform independence is a win for creators and, in this case, journalistic freedom.
This is great news! Thank you for leveraging the clout of your large audience and revenue to push Substack for greater transparency and clarity on their content policies. I also appreciate that you call out anti-vaxx and covid denialist/contrarianism; from my self-interested point of view, it is hard to grow a pro-science publication on a platform known for embracing quackery and pseudoscience! I agree that the Nazi issue is not the last time this tension will arise for the company founders, and they should be thinking deeply about a long-term strategy that resolves it better
The absolute least they could do. They’ve learned nothing and still think they are in the right.
Super unimpressive at this point. Glad I moved, hope Platformer moves too.