Too bad. I think Substack's policies are the right ones, and I think Casey's beliefs about content moderation are both shallow and mistaken (that said, I do respect his willingness to back his beliefs with actions).
For those interested in wiser perspectives on both the Substack debate and content moderation more generally, I would recommend the following pieces:
(Freddie also wrote this https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/these-rules-about-platforming-nazis, which is specifically about the current controversy but combines some points I agree with a bunch of personal attacks and invective that I don't; to be clear, I think folks like Jonathan Katz and Casey are sincere, just misguided).
Finally, I will just add one point. Casey's fundamental case for switching to Ghost from Substack is his belief that Substack's features beyond hosting means it will "accelerate the growth of hate movements." Given that we're 3+ years into Substack's existence and there is literally no evidence that this is the case would, one would think, give Casey reason to reconsider whether his beliefs about content moderation are true. But apparently not.
I’m still torn on whether this reporting was entirely fair to Substack. The thing that sticks out to me is that it isn’t really “Substack’s nazi issue” but rather “Substack’s potential nazi issue”. To me, those two things are not the same.
It was a bit smearing to not mention from the get go that this is more an issue of principles, not of the scope of actual hateful content on the platform.
You're a great writer and I've come to rely on your reporting in a significant way. Count me as one of your many subscribers who will remain regardless of the platform you're on.
That said I'm also glad you took a stand here because your leadership on this will help bring some much needed clarity and accountability for the "free speech at all costs" platform ideology that seems to be metastasizing during a dangerous time.
I was worried that the absolute bare minimum effort done by Substack would be the end of it. I really appreciate the care and thought that went into this decision. Excited to remain a paying supporter of Platformer without feeling torn about where that money is going.
As a paying subscriber, I'm really relieved by this decision and 100% support you folks.
One question though: all the unchallenged Substack claims of 'deplatforming Nazis only makes it worse' - my understanding was that a strong body of research indicates that that position is exactly wrong, isn't it?
Sorry it’s come to this. I’m sure it is causing no small amount of anxiety. But happy and excited to see what the next chapter brings. Thanks for leading and standing up on this. I hope many more follow suit.
Ultimately the platform has little value. The content is what is important, and I'll go whereever I need to go to read your inciteful content. Most appropriately, you are taking action to address a serious issue, something you have written about and pointed out the lack of action among those in similar positions. So this is simply practicing what you preach. Thank you for taking this action. Let us know how to follow you and how to sign up for a multi-year subscription.
Driving the Nazis back underground is self-defeating because then you do not know who your enemies are. Troubled times ahead. I want to know who the brown shirts and torch bearing rabble are. I am not arguing against leaving Substack. That's your call. But deplatforming people just makes them find their audience somewhere else. Somewhere that lets most of the rests of us think there are no fascists, racists, or militant white Christian nationalists left to contend with. And that is very dangerous. That is how we got here, to the point we are on the cusp of potentially re-electing a fascist, cultist, moron god-king.
A load of newsletters I pay for have left Substack and I fully support them and understand why, but it's frustrating as a reader on a few levels. I use filters on my email app to put all the newsletters into folders, so these need to be redone. All my billing on Substack is handled centrally in one place so i can update that when I need to, but now I need to go to different locations. And their reader app has been great, in fact I'd turned off emails for my favourite Substacks and just relied on the app notifications to read them there. But none of these are dealbreakers to follow them to wherever they end up.
I do like Ghost, one newsletter I pay to subscribe to moved over a year ago. It would be great if they had some networked system that would let me manage subscriptions centrally too, making it sort of like a federated Substack.
Casey, you have made the right moral choice, which are never easy.
“Back in the 1940s, the philosopher Karl Popper came up with something called “The Paradox of Tolerance.” It goes like this:
If everyone is tolerant of every idea, then intolerant ideas will emerge. Tolerant people will tolerate this intolerance, and the intolerant people will not tolerate the tolerant people. Eventually, the intolerant people will take over and create a society of intolerance. Therefore, Popper said, to maintain a society of tolerance, the tolerant must be intolerant of intolerance… hence the paradox.”
There is a limit to the phrase, "don't hate the player, hate the game." Totally respect your decision and will follow you anywhere you go. But my feelings with Substack is a fortunate one where I can curate my news and conversations under one "app."
Loyal listener to Hard Fork and hope you can recommend a place where we can bring multiple conversations under one "platfomer er," platform. Recommendations please!
Too bad. I think Substack's policies are the right ones, and I think Casey's beliefs about content moderation are both shallow and mistaken (that said, I do respect his willingness to back his beliefs with actions).
For those interested in wiser perspectives on both the Substack debate and content moderation more generally, I would recommend the following pieces:
- Elle Griffin's open letter: https://www.elysian.press/p/substack-writers-for-community-moderation
- Ben Dreyfuss: https://www.calmdownben.com/p/substack-doesnt-have-a-nazi-problem
- Freddie DeBoer: https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-cant-censor-away-extremism-or
(Freddie also wrote this https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/these-rules-about-platforming-nazis, which is specifically about the current controversy but combines some points I agree with a bunch of personal attacks and invective that I don't; to be clear, I think folks like Jonathan Katz and Casey are sincere, just misguided).
It's also worth reading Jesse Singal's piece about Casey, which he alludes to but doesn't link: https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/platformers-reporting-on-substacks
Finally, I will just add one point. Casey's fundamental case for switching to Ghost from Substack is his belief that Substack's features beyond hosting means it will "accelerate the growth of hate movements." Given that we're 3+ years into Substack's existence and there is literally no evidence that this is the case would, one would think, give Casey reason to reconsider whether his beliefs about content moderation are true. But apparently not.
I'm happy to follow you over to Ghost. I don't care about the tool, I care about the content. And I really hate Nazis.
I’m still torn on whether this reporting was entirely fair to Substack. The thing that sticks out to me is that it isn’t really “Substack’s nazi issue” but rather “Substack’s potential nazi issue”. To me, those two things are not the same.
It was a bit smearing to not mention from the get go that this is more an issue of principles, not of the scope of actual hateful content on the platform.
thanks for leading by example 🙏
You're a great writer and I've come to rely on your reporting in a significant way. Count me as one of your many subscribers who will remain regardless of the platform you're on.
That said I'm also glad you took a stand here because your leadership on this will help bring some much needed clarity and accountability for the "free speech at all costs" platform ideology that seems to be metastasizing during a dangerous time.
Wonderful news. 👏
I was worried that the absolute bare minimum effort done by Substack would be the end of it. I really appreciate the care and thought that went into this decision. Excited to remain a paying supporter of Platformer without feeling torn about where that money is going.
Also, welcome to Ghost!
As a paying subscriber, I'm really relieved by this decision and 100% support you folks.
One question though: all the unchallenged Substack claims of 'deplatforming Nazis only makes it worse' - my understanding was that a strong body of research indicates that that position is exactly wrong, isn't it?
Sorry it’s come to this. I’m sure it is causing no small amount of anxiety. But happy and excited to see what the next chapter brings. Thanks for leading and standing up on this. I hope many more follow suit.
Ultimately the platform has little value. The content is what is important, and I'll go whereever I need to go to read your inciteful content. Most appropriately, you are taking action to address a serious issue, something you have written about and pointed out the lack of action among those in similar positions. So this is simply practicing what you preach. Thank you for taking this action. Let us know how to follow you and how to sign up for a multi-year subscription.
Driving the Nazis back underground is self-defeating because then you do not know who your enemies are. Troubled times ahead. I want to know who the brown shirts and torch bearing rabble are. I am not arguing against leaving Substack. That's your call. But deplatforming people just makes them find their audience somewhere else. Somewhere that lets most of the rests of us think there are no fascists, racists, or militant white Christian nationalists left to contend with. And that is very dangerous. That is how we got here, to the point we are on the cusp of potentially re-electing a fascist, cultist, moron god-king.
A load of newsletters I pay for have left Substack and I fully support them and understand why, but it's frustrating as a reader on a few levels. I use filters on my email app to put all the newsletters into folders, so these need to be redone. All my billing on Substack is handled centrally in one place so i can update that when I need to, but now I need to go to different locations. And their reader app has been great, in fact I'd turned off emails for my favourite Substacks and just relied on the app notifications to read them there. But none of these are dealbreakers to follow them to wherever they end up.
I do like Ghost, one newsletter I pay to subscribe to moved over a year ago. It would be great if they had some networked system that would let me manage subscriptions centrally too, making it sort of like a federated Substack.
100% supportive of this Casey and team.
👏👏👏Greatly appreciate your integrity in this decision. I commit to at least 3 years of annual subscription in support of you and the move.
https://markmanson.net/the-paradox-of-tolerance
Casey, you have made the right moral choice, which are never easy.
“Back in the 1940s, the philosopher Karl Popper came up with something called “The Paradox of Tolerance.” It goes like this:
If everyone is tolerant of every idea, then intolerant ideas will emerge. Tolerant people will tolerate this intolerance, and the intolerant people will not tolerate the tolerant people. Eventually, the intolerant people will take over and create a society of intolerance. Therefore, Popper said, to maintain a society of tolerance, the tolerant must be intolerant of intolerance… hence the paradox.”
Happy to follow you wherever you all go -- I’m here for the content, and frankly was happier when substack wasn’t trying to be so many things.
There is a limit to the phrase, "don't hate the player, hate the game." Totally respect your decision and will follow you anywhere you go. But my feelings with Substack is a fortunate one where I can curate my news and conversations under one "app."
Loyal listener to Hard Fork and hope you can recommend a place where we can bring multiple conversations under one "platfomer er," platform. Recommendations please!